It's official lowest first run national since season 1.

85. "Everwood," WB, 3.4

85. "World Wrestling Entertainment Smackdown!," UPN, 3.4

88. "Fastlane," Fox, 3.3

89. "Charmed," WB, 3.2

89. "Surreal Life," WB, 3.2

91. "Reba," WB, 3.1

92. "One On One," UPN, 2.8

93. "Girlfriends," UPN, 2.7

93. "High School Reunion," WB, 2.7

95. (X) "Abby-Monday," UPN, 2.6

95. "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," UPN, 2.6

ouch heh

well i can say i contibuted to that cuz i watched it monday

Abby tied it...*sighs*.

wow, UPN was down across the board that week look at **cough** WWF that's really low for it to.

What scary is that those 3rd rate WB reality show crushed it..ouch



Actually they aren't really and thats on par for WWE its been hovering between 3.3-3.6 for awhile now.

not surprising at all. i think more and more people are losing interest in this storyline. all i can say since this is not the spoiler section. still time for rewrites??

Has nothing to do with the storyline. to many people did not know it was a new EP as well as several areas were preempted.
That's why it was down so much.

oh and lets put some perspective on it as well

S6 Seeing Red 2.7
S5 Forever 2.7
S4 Where The Wild Things Are 2.7
S2 When She Was Bad 2.9
S1 Puppet Show 1.9

Yes it's the lowest since S1 with 1.9 but come on every season except S2 has had Ep's low like this.

S2 it was even the season premiere one of my all time fav's not to mention it was .1 lower than the lowest
the concern will be if it stays low but on the other hand UPN still trying to get the show back all depends on Sarah now

are you nuts this story line is great

Hmm I don't remember many markets being preempted and I always note when they are, I think at most one was. As far as people not knowing it is like that for every show around this time and they all suffer. For some reason right now Buffy is losing some ratings ground and I'm not sure why, did they move a show to that timeslot that wasn't there before? I expected it to do better since GG was a rerun because lately I have been tuning in to GG and taping Buffy but because Gilmore wasn't on last week I watched and taped Buffy. Next week we are up against American Idol *sigh*.

How horrible...
Thanks for the info.

All this means to me is that there are a bunch of people out there who don't know what they're missing

STOP blaming everything on the storylines...the ratings were down because of no promotion. The storyline lately has been amazing.

yeah thats depressing If Am. Idol does as well as the summer...uh-oh

I say preempted because someone on this board had said they couldn't watch because a game or something was on ( I think in Arizona, phenix maybe ) which is a fairly good size market.

as I 've said and I know it's not believed but in december and january many didn't know new EPs were on. yes the show have many devoted fans but just as many who watch regularly but don't pay as close attention as we do. I've already run it more at work 5 of them that didn't know buffy wasn't on this week and didn't know next week is a new EP. (got to keep these people upto date) plus all it takes is what 5 neilson families to lower the rating .1 so it doesn't take much. this is 25 fewer neilson families watched which according to neilson mean 675000 people didn't watch compared to the start of the season. personal I want to know were they are. except for the ones who didn't know it was on everyone I know is watching and even some new ones

Well see its not that black and white. Take Forever for instance back in season 5 LA was the second or third biggest market and Buffy was preempted in LA because of baseball and I remember at least 2 other markets being preempted. I wasn't watching back in season
2 so I don't know what factored there, but remember season 1 was 11 episodes long midseason and they didn't even know it was returning for a full season at the time so thats understandable. In all the time I've been following ratings I've learned one thing, unless there is a trend you can't blame the story.




You know whats even more depressing? I'm actually looking fwd to the first few episodes of Idol because they are always so embarrasingly funny.

SMGVBest I understand what you mean about people not knowing when the show is back in December and January what I was pointing out though is every show goes through it. UPN doesn't promote Buffy as much as it can but I think there logic is look the Monday comedies are consistent through reruns and all without promotion Buffy ought to be able to.

The ratings have obviously been spiked with something foul.

Hehe just kidding! It's a shame that the ratings are so low.

oh I know it's not black and white. what I'm saying is that every season has its really low EP and they've been some good ones
like you said it's trend that laters but also the trend is changed because the show is no longer on the WB so even I have to admit comparing to WB numbers isn't 100% valid thing to do

it seems to me we are making every excuse except the storyline. that rating number is horrible, especially considering it had no competiion from gilmore girls. without going into details, you cant continue repeating things and keep the show fresh. i think the biggest problem is that joss is just not very involved with the show. he began to concentrate on other projects after season 3, and it shows

Well, I don't usually get into ratings but I'm pretty sure the ratings for this week were even lower given no Buffy at all.

In You Opinion

I disagree as do many others

I've always stuck with this little tidbit when looking at the ratings when compared to the old WB ones...and the new WB competition: Haven't they always had more affiliates than UPN? Therefore if UPN is doing the exact same (or a couple .1's lower), it's just aswell because Buffy (and other UPN shows) are still keeping up with their competition despite their affilaite losses?

Essentially, you're right. The problem is though the potential. Take Smallville for instance its a huge success even compared to the big 4 shows, its considered more of a success than Alias and American Dreams which both gets higher ratings but are on bigger network. The reason is because although Smallville is on a small network it pulls in big numbers inspite of that. Buffy can and it did with the premiere. The reason a lot of ratings experts are down on Buffys ratings is because it was unable to hold on to a huge audience while Smallville for example capitalized on it. Though the network and markets are smaller the audience is out there. When Buffy was on the WB during season 2 the WB had roughly about the same market coverage UPN has now, its only as of late the WB has acquired the amount of affiliates they now have.

well, it's not terrific..but it was perhaps to be expected. UPN is a smaller network, so it's not crazy to suggest that buffy's ratings are bound to go down...

and it was pre-empted..i know of 2 people (i know 2 isn't much..but there's bound to be others out there) who missed it because they didn't even know it was on...

it was the first episode after a 3 week break..i say that's a decent number.

but yes, the lowest since season 1 (though, barely), doesn't sound too good...

Or shall we say 95% of others.


Anyway, am I the only person here who couldn't care less about ratings? We don't even HAVE ratings in NZ (to a certain extent).

I know it feels like I always say the same thing but its not that big of a deal. Buffy's ratings are down, but they are still decent when you look at the ratings of all the other UPN shows which were all new that week. Only Smackdown was above a 3.0. And Buffy wasnt that far off from Girlfriends and One on One. In my opinion, a 2.6 is not a huge difference to a 2.7 and 2.8. Buffy was UPN's highest rated drama for the week (granted I know there are only 3 but still). Buffy tied with the special monday preview of Abby where as Abby on its regular night scored a 1.6. Its interesting to see that Enterprise ratings seem to be way more off this year than Buffys. I'd be more concern if Buffy ratings went down sharply to a 1.5 or something as oppose to moving from a 2.7 to a 2.6.

Can I just take a minute? *looks at Angel's ratings* Hmm...

Buffy does have some good news though, with That 70's Show moving to Wednesdays...

That sucks. I thought "Showtime" was a good episode. I guess they didn't think so.

I liked Showtime 2. They low ratings have nothing to do with the storylines in my opinion. The storylines right now are the best they've had in a long time. And plus there is like no promotion. Since season 7 started i've seen 1 promo on MTV. That's it. And i think 2 or 3 TV gude excerpts.

Neways, i think the WB airs in alot of places UPN doesn't. UPN doesn't air where i live & the places that surround where i live because the cable providers won't ever pick the channel up. I have a friend who lives 5 states away, doesn't get that channel either. Though they've always had the WB.
I get to see Buffy episodes only because a friend records them for me.

I said it before and i'll say it again. American TV Networks Suck. I mean, you have all these pre-emptings and shows gettin switched from time-slot to time-slot and changing days and having weeks upon weeks with no new episodes and all this faffing around over sweeps, im not surprised people dont know new eps are on.... over here, Buffy has been in the same time slot, on the same day, on the same channel for the past six years and a half, and as far as i know its never been pre-empted except for something seriously important, and theres just a full 22 week run of eps, why cant you just do that in the US? And UPN, thanx for killing our show sorry but IMO, theyr rubbish, i mean, get some advertising done you cheap bastards!

Unless you were called and asked what you were watching, it doesn't really matter whether you watched buffy or not. All that matters, is what the people who were called, were watching.

Smallville is a great show. I watch it every week. So is EverWood. Remember that the television audience isn't just made up of girls. Many of you don't realize how big the male market is, and that we prefer other things than you do.

Long as Buffy keeps making money, there is nothing to worry about.

Yeah but UPN isn't paying 2.3 million dollars for One on One and Girlfirends and UPN isn't losing advertising dollars from One on One and Girlfriends. One and One and Girlfriends are more than meeting there ad rate promised ratings, Buffy isn't. Also dramas usually out rate half hour comedies.


Take in to consideration that Abby is a new show without an established audience and its a show that fits the Monday night line up and instead got stuck in a slot that has proven to be a death slot for UPN. You can hardly compare the two fairly. Although Buffy because it already had the advantage of a built in audience was able to bring to life a timeslot that was dead for UPN.



Yeah Enterprise really isn't doing well at all this season, yet no one in the media takes note of that. Buffy, because its much more popular and pricey gets all hits.


Suppose the next episode ratings drop to a 2.5 then do we say a 2.5 isn't that far off from a 2.6 so thats not bad?and then suppose it goes to a 2.4 or a 2.3 then a 2.2 then a 2.1? Saying the lowest isn't that bad because it is close to the 2nd lowest is faulty because both lowest are down from the norm. 2.6 is down sharply from Buffy's norm and a 1.5 isn't good for even a network like PAX.

your right if the rating continue to go down that is cause for concern. if this trend follows in feb sweeps then I'll worry myself but for now we recouping from holidays that for whatever reason this year hit hard.

at the 2.6 i'm not confortable with it but not panicing yet. hopefully i'll rebound back up the 3.1 it was pulling.

Sorry sometimes I think faster than I type. hee. My point I was bringing about Abby, even though I didn't type it, is that UPN still needs Buffy because out of the new series only Half and Half so far is giving UPN good ratings. Haunted bombed and Twilight Zone is not doing too great. Yes Buffy has a built in audience but there are shows that can do well off the start, but UPN hasnt found any thus why they still need Buffy.



I thought I read somewhere UPN set the ad rate based on May 2002 sweep numbers for all their shows. Buffy's avg isnt far off from that is it? I wasn't comparing Buffy to the comedies I was comparing Buffy to the other dramas by saying it was the highest rated drama last week. That is important to note because networks like to have both. When you say dramas usually out rate half hour comedies are you talking about the ad rate or the nielsen rating? Ad rate I'd agree with, neilsen rating I wouldnt think so as comedies tend to do better in repeats than dramas.

If Buffy was really doing so bad there would not be negociations to keep it for another year.

UPN is losing money on Buffy regardless. They lost money on Buffy when they signed them for 2 seasons. They were not expecting to make a profit on Buffy. And Buffy cant be blamed for nobody watching UPN on Tuesday at 9pm. Thats UPNs job to find a show that people will watch because its obvious people show up on Tuesday to watch Buffy but then half of them leave after its over.

It is important I feel to also note that all the UPN shows were down last week. Only Smackdown had more than 5 million viewers. How Buffy does compared to other UPN shows is important even if UPN is not making money off of it. Buffy doesnt have to be the top rated show for the network to want to keep it.

Buffy is also the longest running show on UPN right now. Most shows do tend to lose viewership as the years go by. I would love Buffy to have higher ratings than shows like Charmed, Gilmore Girls and Smallville because Buffy is my favorite. While these are all good shows (well except maybe Charmed sometimes) they have more viewers because you can easily miss a few episodes and not be confused about whats going on. Charmed never even shows previouslys. With Buffy you can get lost if you don't know whats going on. And if that means Buffy gets lower ratings because of that then I will take the lower ratings because I like that it has a "everything is connected" feel to the show and it gives the show so much rich history. Please dont flame me about Gilmore Girls, Charmed and Smallville. I said I like those shows its just that Buffy has such a big picture feel to it.

I'm not arguing that Buffy is on the brink of cancellation or anything, we all know Buffy will go off the air on its on terms. What I am saying is when UPN acquired Buffy knowing they wouldn't make a profit from it, they did so expecting 3 things, critical acclaim and therefore lots of free publicity for their network, a show that would put their Tuesday nights on the map and Buffy did both those things, but they also needed it to be able to bring an audience to its lead out, thats what lead ins are supposed to do, help sustain the show that follows. I'm not blaming Buffy, because UPN airs crappy shows, I am saying though that was an expectation.

They weren't able to launch any show after Buffy, all failed miserably, the audience were just not sticking around. Ideally its suppose to work the way Gilmore Girls and Smallville do, GG draws a huge audience, Smallville holds on to it and builds.

Buffy ad rates did get sold based on the finale numbers and that was about 3.3.I know the ad rate went down from its WB days. The ratings in the beginning stayed pretty close to that at 3.1-3.0 but as of late, and maybe as a result of the holiday season it dropped. I read an article and I wish I could find it now concerning this same issue that UPN had to either lower the ad rate per epsiode to advertisers or give back free ad time to make up the difference, thats never a good thing for network.

UPN on a whole is in danger of being gone and only Buffy or a probable Buffy spinoff may be able to save it. That isn't because of the ratings Buffy brings in but because Buffy is owned by FOX and the affiliates they need to not jump ship are FOX affilaites. So yes the Buffy franchise is incredibly important to UPNs survival and thats a big reason why they are eager to negotiate. FOX is making gazillions off Buffy, UPN not so much.



I meant Nielsens, at least for the smaller nets. Look at the WB with the exception of Reba all their half hour comedies tank.

I didn't realize how bad Enterprise's ratings are. You're right, its really not fair how they target on Buffy like that.

guess because Buffy's a bigger name with the media.

The ratings will probably level out in February, when there's a new episode all month? This back and forth thing, probably confuses some viewers out of the loop.