Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Buffy and death
SMGfan Message Board > The Buffyverse > General Discussion
Buffycontrelesvampires
I've been having a problem all season long with Buffy and death. Actually, I think this problem started last season when Willow became the Big Bad.

Why would Buffy try to fight an end to the world? For she knows, by now, surely, that if she dies, she'll return to heaven, a place she longs for and knows about since she's already been there. "Crawl out of your grave you find this fight just doesn't mean a thing..." And she's right.

This is probably why this season has felt fairly anti-climatic. If Buffy dies again, it's no big deal. If I knew I was going to heaven, I don't think I'd care much either.

Plus, I think I'd start to try and re-summon the spirit of the First Slayer who would seem to be a match for the UberVamp and the First Evil. If Buffy could be super Slayer in Season 5 after a spell like that, how could the Uber Vamp even stand a chance?

Don't get me wrong...I think this season has been the best in a long time. One of the reasons I loved the first three seasons of Buffy was the music and the Bronze (though I'm not quite sure I like the re-modeled Bronze as much) and how it permeated Buffy. We caught glimpses of the Bronze and its unique music in Season 4, 5, and 6 of Buffy but it wasn't like the first three seasons. Season 7 has brought it back with a vengeance...am I the only one hoping for a couple of new Buffy CDs as a result? Especially the track from CWDP. tongue.gif
Buffycontrelesvampires
Sorry, meant to say Season 4. Am typing in the dark! tongue.gif
SMGVBEST
Why would she fight, Because as the season went on Buffy realized that she wanted to live. she realized that yes she was loved in heaven but she's needed here. Her friends need her and not just because she's the slayer but because they love her. Dawn Needs her and Giles. She was loved in heaven but she is equally loved on earth. She has realized who she is by the end of S6 and came back with a vengance in S7. She's happy again.

What does all this come down to. She wants to Live. And that's why once again she fights to stay alive and make a difference.
Buffycontrelesvampires
But she's also admitted that she feels superior to them and that their opinions don't matter. And doesn't she seem to be getting weaker as the season progresses? Maybe it's due to the fact that she's feeling conflicted about her role in all this?
btvsgurl24
QUOTE(Buffycontrelesvampires @ Jan 11 2003, 01:21 AM)
I've been having a problem all season long with Buffy and death.  Actually, I think this problem started last season when Willow became the Big Bad.

Why would Buffy try to fight an end to the world? For she knows, by now, surely, that if she dies, she'll return to heaven, a place she longs for and knows about since she's already been there.  "Crawl out of your grave you find this fight just doesn't mean a thing..."  And she's right.

This is probably why this season has felt fairly anti-climatic.  If Buffy dies again, it's no big deal.  If I knew I was going to heaven, I don't think I'd care much either. 

Plus, I think I'd start to try and re-summon the spirit of the First Slayer who would seem to be a match for the UberVamp and the First Evil.  If Buffy could be super Slayer in Season 5 after a spell like that, how could the Uber Vamp even stand a chance?

Don't get me wrong...I think this season has been the best in a long time.  One of the reasons I loved the first three seasons of Buffy was the music and the Bronze (though I'm not quite sure I like the re-modeled Bronze as much) and how it permeated Buffy.  We caught glimpses of the Bronze and its unique music in Season 4, 5, and 6 of Buffy but it wasn't like the first three seasons.  Season 7 has brought it back with a vengeance...am I the only one hoping for a couple of new Buffy CDs as a result?  Especially the track from CWDP. tongue.gif

you have put your finger on a couple of problems. the show has put itself in a box. buffy has to die to make the show realistic, otherwise the evil was soooo lame. the other choice is to copy the end of "amends", but, been there, done that!!.
also, i have always wondered why they gave willow the power of god? what is the point of a vampire slayer? cant willow just blink her eyes and eliminate vamps once and for all. making willow all powerful was a big mistake in my opinion.
AL9045
Willow got the power of a god...? blink.gif. Anyways, Buffy doesn't have to die, it just adds something to the show and storyline. I mean, not every show always ends peacefully. Buffy died in "The Gift" to save the world, which is her duty. I mean, if that wouldn't have happened, the episode probably wouldn't have had as big as an impact on many viewers.
Isie
The way I see it:
Buffy has a duty to the world. She will put behind her personal desires to return to Heaven to save everyone she was born to protect from death. Anyway, it's not like Heaven's going anywhere. She'll go there one day
SMGVBEST
QUOTE(Buffycontrelesvampires @ Jan 11 2003, 10:19 AM)
But she's also admitted that she feels superior to them and that their opinions don't matter.  And doesn't she seem to be getting weaker as the season progresses?  Maybe it's due to the fact that she's feeling conflicted about her role in all this?

ok you just went from one issue to another here. wanting to return to heaven vs. feeling superior are not the same thing.

if you want to talk about feeling superior then also remember she has a inferiority complex about having a superiority complex. which means she knows it and doesn't like that aspect of herself. she has also not shown or acted superior. if lines were to be quoted from this season and I think I know the ones that would be quoted they prove the emergence of a leader not someone who feels or acts superior.

if talking weaker in physical strenght then maybe the demons she's fighting are getting um, stronger and not her getting weaker? ubervamp was stronger, stronger than any she's faced except for may glory and it took all season for her to pull together to face her.

she's not feeling conflicted. she's up against another powefull being and she doesn't yet know how to win. just as she doesn't know how to win until usually the 2-3 EP of the season. there's no difference here. the biggest thing going on this season vs. others is that the whole arc is about the FE. not do a few EP's covering something and maybe get a clue on the big bad almost every EP this season has been devoted toward this big bag (except for Him)
Watcher
QUOTE(Buffycontrelesvampires @ Jan 11 2003, 08:19 AM)
And doesn't she seem to be getting weaker as the season progresses?  Maybe it's due to the fact that she's feeling conflicted about her role in all this?

She was weak for a few episodes as she was trying to figure out what was going on. They were being hit from all sides, her house kept getting destroyed, she couldn't find Giles, she had fears about what Spike was doing. All of this left her confused and unsure of what to do.

But now that she knows who her enemy is and what it wants, she's gathering her determination, putting some plans in place, starting to fight back. I believe she will only get stronger as the story goes on.

To be sure, she will suffer some defeats along the way (there are still 11 episodes to go after all). But whenever we think she's down and out, she'll get that steely look in her eyes and come roaring back.

Because, to quote Giles, "She's a hero, you see".
Isie
QUOTE(Watcher @ Jan 11 2003, 01:51 PM)
She knows who her enemy is and what it wants, she's gathering her determination, putting some plans in place, starting to fight back.  I believe she will only get stronger as the story goes on.

Because, to quote Giles, "She's a hero, you see".

I agree smile.gif
SMGVBEST
QUOTE(Watcher @ Jan 11 2003, 12:51 PM)
She was weak for a few episodes as she was trying to figure out what was going on.  They were being hit from all sides, her house kept getting destroyed, she couldn't find Giles, she had fears about what Spike was doing.  All of this left her confused and unsure of what to do.

But now that she knows who her enemy is and what it wants, she's gathering her determination, putting some plans in place, starting to fight back.  I believe she will only get stronger as the story goes on.

To be sure, she will suffer some defeats along the way (there are still 11 episodes to go after all).  But whenever we think she's down and out, she'll get that steely look in her eyes and come roaring back.

Because, to quote Giles, "She's a hero, you see".

biggrin.gif yep biggrin.gif
That's our Buffy. She's a hero, always has been and will be.
Premiere
QUOTE(Buffycontrelesvampires @ Jan 11 2003, 11:19 AM)
But she's also admitted that she feels superior to them and that their opinions don't matter.  And doesn't she seem to be getting weaker as the season progresses?  Maybe it's due to the fact that she's feeling conflicted about her role in all this?

Buffy's "I feel superior" is one of the more intriguing statements made on the show in some time. It shows to me how complex the program is. Buffy feeling superior. to me does not mean that she is entitled to walk around feeling as though all are in her debt, but that in fact, it means that she recognizes the responsibility that goes with it.
Her "I am the law" and "Any questions" speeches, and her fight with Uber V, were done as much to solidify her position, as it was to give the others confidence. Since Buffy has realized that to be a leader you must have confident people behind you, not scared spectators.
Buffycontrelesvampires
Good points everyone, though I still think the writers have put themselves in a box. Why not call on the power of the First Slayer and have Buffy become all powerful again? She would easily defeat the Ubervamp. Or even Willow could. And if you've been to heaven once and know it's there, would the end of the world be so terrible? Wouldn't you figure that the good would go to heaven and the evil would go to hell? tongue.gif As much as I am loving Season 7, I keep on wondering about this. I can't wait to see what happens!
SMGVBEST
QUOTE(Buffycontrelesvampires @ Jan 12 2003, 07:03 PM)
Good points everyone, though I still think the writers have put themselves in a box.  Why not call on the power of the  First Slayer and have Buffy become all powerful again?  She would easily defeat the Ubervamp.  Or even Willow could.  And if you've been to heaven once and know it's there, would the end of the world be so terrible?  Wouldn't you figure that the good would go to heaven and the evil would go to hell? tongue.gif  As much as I am loving Season 7, I keep on wondering about this.  I can't wait to see what happens!

yes but if buffy didn't try with all her heart as she always does and let the world end. would she be allowed back into heaven?
wouldn't letting everyone die kinda be a big mark against you to get into heaven?
so maybe the only way back for her now is to do what she's always done. Fight the fight and save the world.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2010 Invision Power Services, Inc.