What I expected, again not enough promotion for the new EP.
talked to three people when I picked up S3 DVD and none of them knew it was a new EP tonight and if they had been Neilson families that would do this to the ratings. Can't figure Berman out here though, I don't see how a 3.2 is 7 percent above a 3.6? any ideas, new math

On the WB, a two-hour repeat of Smallville averaged a 3.2/ 5 - seven percent, on average, above UPN's Buffy, the Vampire Slayer (#5: 3.6/ 5), Girlfriends (#6: 2.3/ 3) and episode number two of Abby (#6: 2.4/ 3). Next week, Abby moves into its regularly scheduled Tuesday 9 p.m. time period.

that is not good at all considering buffy had no competition last night. gilmore girls was not on. it was up against a repeat of smallville. upn definitely needs to do something to gin up interest!! promote!!

The WB was the only network last night showing repeats, so Buffy DID have competition. It's no big deal really. We know Buffy is gonna get around 4.8 million anyway which is fine. Plus, these episodes sandwhiched between repeats never do too well.

What are you talking about? It's not just UPN vs WB you know...what is after Abby?

Mr. Berman is saying that over the 2-hour period Smallville's 3.2/5 is 7% better than UPN's average of app. 2.97/4 over the 2-hour period. Buffy did better than Smallville but Girlfriends and Abby did much worse.

Overall, the overnight for this episode (3.6/5 or 3.5/5 based on who you look at) is the same as that given for Bring On The Night back on Dec. 17th. It's down a fair amount from last year's 4.4/7 which Gone got on January 8th, 2002. Expect around a 2.7-2.8 national rating, down from the 3.3 national rating Gone got this time last year.

Since this is almost certainly Buffy's final season (even Joss wants it to end), I don't really care what the ratings are anymore. I'm more concerned with the quality of the episodes and that's been fine this year. If the poor ratings mean there's no spin-off, that's fine with me too. Perhaps its better just to have a clean finish instead of trying to continue the show under a different name. Actually, I think Fox (and perhaps UPN) is the one who wants to continue the show - Joss and the main actors seem ready to finish, IMHO. Besides, Angel will probably be around to continue the 'Buffy' universe, and even if that calls it quits, in general, the show's been on about 6 seasons more than I thought it would be when it started. It's had a good run.

-M.W.- (who will update his ratings website soon)

Were in the world did you here that?
Give me a credible source? not wanda or TVHome.com.

I see what your saying about the ratings but that's not how it was worded. maybe a typo, but it doesn't read that way and he just sounds well dumb.

is joss even involved with the show anymore? i think he left long ago.

He never "left". He's was busy working on "Firefly". And S7 is ANYTHING but a lack of quality...


Thanks for the news, SMGVBEST. Buffy seems to be averaging the same in the last few weeks...

Anyone know if Joss is going to be writing any upcoming Buffy/Angel episodes?

I'm sure many people had no idea it was a new ep. Too bad, they missed a good one.
They can get it on DVD 2 years from now.

This is so true, As i said in my original post.
I know three people who would have missed it if I hadn't told them it was a new EP. and they were at bestbuy buying the S3 DVD.

well, that's what we all expected, considering it's been on a fairly long break..and some people may still be on holidays.

yes, that's it.

still, i'm glad it can beat a repeat of smallville.

Me again, playing devils advocate for UPN. Not knowing a show is coming back after a long break is not a situation unique to Buffy and UPN, it happens with every show. I really like Gilmore Girls but I had no idea when the new episode would air until I tuned in last night and saw Smallville instead and heard a voiceover saying GG would be back next week. Similarly if I didn't watch ABC I'd have no idea last Sunday's Alias was a new one. The thing is, this is midseason the networks aren't going to start billboard campaigns or anything now. Shows are promoted on the networks they air and maybe in tvguide and a few radio spots and thats it. Every show goes through it. It says something about the Buffy fanbase that even after hiatus it comes back with basically the same audience share it had before the hiatus. Compare that to Alias which had a 7.7 before hiatus and came back with a 6.5, it always takes that show atleast 2 new episodes to bounce back. Buffy has a rather loyal fanbase that seem to always know when its back. The one thing I find interesting about the ratings is the drop from earlier to now. Early on it was constantly pulling in between 4.0-4.1 now it seemed to have settled between 3.5 to 3.6, I'd be interested to know what caused that drop.

I based my 'Joss wants Buffy to end' comments on his remarks to SFX Magazine in their 100th issue recently. There's an article where he answers 100 questions. The only 3 I've seen is when they ask him about his shows. When asked if this is Buffy's last season he says, "God, I hope so." When asked if this is Angel's last season he says simply "No." When asked if this is Firefly's last season he says "God, I hope not."

These could be tongue-in-cheek answers, but if taken seriously, it indicates that Joss is ready to put Buffy to bed. Personally, I can believe this because before it was known that Buffy was going to continue after season 5, Joss (and other cast members in interviews) always said that Buffy should end after 5 seasons. Buffy's death at the end of Season 5 was probably Joss's original plan for the end of the show, IMHO. But Joss doesn't own the show, Fox does. And they wanted it to continue. So its still on. I think given a choice of having Buffy continue or Firefly, Joss would take Firefly in a second at this point.

-M.W.-

I know when it had the first two drops it was prempted in some major markets. then went into repeats. that may have some effect on it.

to put this into another perspective. each rating point is about 33 neilson families watching compared to 49 familes in the national (these are approximate numbers) so with just 33 families not watching, out of town or something is enough to lower the ratings.

Now to go from a 4.1 to a 3.6 that's a change of .5 or 16 families didn't watch Buffy compared to CWDP the last 4.1 EP.
Though I follow ratings and get a kick out of it i do still have trouble with it only takes 16 familes to lower the rating and that's suppose to mean
345,000 less people across america didn't watch because these families were out of town, visiting or something.

jsut somethign to really think about and probably why Joss doesn't give a #($# about ratings. he hears what we think and that's his way of ratings his show. of course that means nothing to the suites

Haven't read it but it sounds like joss being joss. that's not the kind of comment he makes when serious.
Wasn't Joss one of them who was there pushing on to keep buffy going and selling it?

whatever i am still happy

yeah..showtime was pre-empted too, for basketball or something in some places..

BoTN got about the same overnights, didn't it? and that was kinda coz it was the holiday season.

it can kinda be said for showtime, too. it's still the first week of the new year..perhaps some people haven't arrived home yet.

I actually think that the show will end after this season, but I'm fairly sure that Joss was joking around with those answers. At least that was the way I took it when I read that issue...

What's after Abby...?

Thanks.

Well thank goodness that didn't happen or I wouldn't have been able to see my 2 favorite seasons of the show!

I seem to also remember Joss saying that it would take 10 seasons to tell Buffy's story....

Well, it was pre-empted here in the Phoenix area for a Suns basketball game, which really pissed me off. We're a pretty big metropolis now, third, I heard, only to L.A. and NY, so that would have to affect the ratings, wouldn't it?

I heard the same thing

lol Joss keeps changing his mind!

Does he, or does he just know how to play the game?

Hmm, Joss probably did or still does intend to do 10 seasons. I don't think he ever thought there would be still be unsigned contracts or a possible end to the show at this point. .

lol, well if he has plans for 10 seasons and we cut it short at season 7.... not good.

ANd that's why BUFFY Must Continue, Can't make Joss a lier (sp)

Liar

I knew i'd get it wrong

You guys are cracking me up.

Ok, here's what I think. The show is probably going to end this year. The main reason I think this is that UPN does not seem to have a grasp of how to handle it. They have no other shows that complement it, and that can follow it with any kind of logic. The show's ratings do not reflect the quality of the show, but meanwhile, UPN is doing nothing to promote it, and there are no signs that the ratings will ever rise above their current levels. Which means, it's UPN or nobody at this point. A sad commentary on the TV landscape, perhaps, but true. UPN is not acting like a loving network.

Other reasons: the show cost UPN quite a bit, and I think the jury's out about whether or not their investment has paid off. Sarah is going to want a massive pay raise to continue doing the same job over again instead of moving on to new projects, which will bring the costs of the show up perhaps significantly. I don't care what dribble people have been spouting over the last few years: you absolutely, positively need Sarah to have a successful Buffy The Vampire Slayer tv show.

FWIW, I believe Joss has had enough of Buffy at this point. It's a great x 100 show. But it's a challenge that has been met over and over, and it's got to be feeling like a treadmill by now. This would explain his greater enthusiasm for the newer projects.

The good news is that these 7 seasons have been far better than anything else on TV during the whole run. There's enough depth in each episode to keep even the most ardent fans busy for years after the series finale.

Thank you Glenn!

I was surfing thefutoncritic and some other ratings site to confirm that the nationals for Showtime is indeed a 2.6 and I just decided to look at the ratings for all UPN show and this is well..wow. This is how the UPN shows are ranked by overall ratings:

1.WWE Smackdown: 5.64
2. One on One: 4.69
3. Girlfriends: 4.59
4. Enterprise: 4.54
5. The Parkers: 4.26
6. Buffy: 4.21
7. Half and Half: 4.07
8. The Twilight Zone: 2.89

Just an FYI I think Buffy and Girlfriends both suffer from being re-aired to often. UPN airs Buffy twice on Tuesdays on a few occasions and a lot of times Girlfirends has followed Buffy on Tuesdays at nine which is a dead spot for the UPN. Anyway I just found that interesting.

ETA I did post this for a reason, given these stats would you rather UPN rerun Buffy less like the WB does with Angel thus insuring the average doesn't drop so much or do you want more Buffy ratings be damned?

I agree with you CrazeeT that the Buffy reairing alot hurts the ratings. Not to mention the fact that Buffy aired on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve which even worsen the ratings. Although airing Buffy reruns less would help the average, I would not want UPN to stop airing reruns especially this year where I have to retape a few eps due to my UPN station messing up during the show.

Where is the information that says Showtime got a 2.6? I saw someone else mention it but I looked and I couldn't find that info. It sucks but it doesnt surprise me sometimes shows have off weeks and also its sandwhiched between reruns. Although I still dont understand how same overnight numbers translate into different nationals. Also I dont understand how same national numbers translates to different total number of viewers.

I am a little worried about when American Idol starts. I dont think its going to be big as the first one because that ran during the summer, but I am concerned.

As for worrying about ratings if Buffy will be renewed or not. I still think UPN will be foolish to let go of Buffy even at its price tag. Abby performed the same as all the other shows UPN have cancelled after Buffy. Yes Buffy is not always UPNs top performer every week. But without Buffy UPN's average will be a lot worse. I guess the blooper show will demonstrate how well UPN does without Buffy. Personally I dont see it doing better than a normal rerun of Buffy (by that I mean one that is only airing for the second time not on a holiday). I definitely dont think it will do as well as a new Buffy.

And if Buffy ends this year. It will definitely end on a stellar high note imo.

I think DVD sales should count for something. I mean ya ratings are kinda low, but DVD sales show people love the show. That money should be used to help some, but I guess not.

Lalalalala.. Buffy is FUN. I like watching BUFFY.

I also forgot to mention in my gosh darn long post, that reruns of comedies also generally always do better than reruns of dramas because they are just more convienent to rewatch. I think a season average should be based on only new eps imo especially if some shows just air new eps and no reruns.

Another thing to is yes Buffy's ratings are down but this last november sweeps and also their average for Tuesday 8pm so far this season is second only to last seasons Buffy. Which shows that Buffy is still giving the network higher ratings on Tuesday 8pm they have ever had.

I'm gonna try my best to answer the first part of your question. The reason overnights are higher than nationals is because overnights are just a sample and counts fewer households than nationals. For example if I had 8 oranges and I only had to divide them between two people both of us would get 4 because 8 divided by 2 is 4. Whereas if I had to divide my 8 oranges between 4 people we all would only have 2 because 8 divided by 4 is 2. More people equals a smaller share for everyone. This is a little bit like ratings but not exactly. Because with ratings the population also increase as you add more markets. Overnights count fewer markets than nationals. Nationals include every single market, overnights equal only a few of the biggest markets. Does that make any sense?



I think thats only for UPN though I'm pretty sure seasons 2-5 had much higher sweeps numbers than both season 6 and 7.

Edited because i just remembered that AI always aired on Tuesdays.

2.6 for showtime?

well, i guess that's to be expected after coming back from such a long break.

but i'm a little irked that it's like UPN's number 6 show. i mean, there's not much separating them..but still. according to that, anyway.

oh, by the way, do we find out what the ratings for bring on the night were? i think i missed it...

don't quite understand your rerun comment. both shows are rerun the same number of time. they just rerun them differently (if thats what you mean) Buffy, gives you one every now and then, angel take a longer hiatus and so you get more at a time.
I'm not sure which I perfer but the WB way is better for the ratings.

what I mean is the more reruns a show counts in its overall average the lower that average is. Last season for instance when WB replaced Angel reruns with that gawd Awful Kevin Williamson show it actually helped Angels overall average because they had to count fewer reruns. Because reruns rate so low they tend to bring down the overall number so the fewer you count the better.

so, um, are those overall ratings for UPN that were posted by crazeeT including reruns as well? or just new eps? coz if it includes reruns, i can totally see why buffy's so low...



and, does anyone know the national rating for bring on the night?

I think it was a 2.7 which was the lowest overnight for a first run episode since like season 1. If Showtime did score a 2.6 and I have yet to confirm that it will be the new lowest.

The overall ratings does include reruns without reruns its a 4.89

I thought the national ratings weren't compiled for around a week or so after each ep airs?? Or is that just how long it takes them to release the info??

okay if you ignore reruns buffy rates much higher. Without reruns its:
WWE: which i didn't bother to calculate because one glance at the numbers says it all
One on One: 5.36
Enterprise: 4.96
Buffy: 4.89
Girlfriends: 4.88

Looking at SFX again for a sec, I was just so happy to see Joss actually confirm in print somewhere that he will write and direct the final episode (whenever that happens). I didn't think for second that he wouldn't, but it was nice to have him say it...

CrazeeT - that's much better, thanks. so without including reruns, buffy's the 4th highest rated show.

not bad. well, it's much better than being the 6th with the reruns.

yeah, showtime getting a 2.6 in the nationals is back to season 1 ratings or there abouts..
the lowest rated episode last season was seeing red with 2.7...so 2.6 pushes it down lower i guess...which, yeah, i think is the lowest since season 1.

oh well. hopefully it picks up a bit after the holiday season is well and truly over.

nope, they are actually available the next day by like 3:30pm. most wait to publish the master list for the whole week though.